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USMCOWL said

One key thing though is getting the people on board in the area, I know Mark will be all for it. :) But again you have to find a developer, and then get property values, then begin negoatating, and tear down buildings and construction. This is a huge project, which has been years in the making but it could still be years away, unless something changes within the year. but it will get there.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 1:15 PM #367386

I am on board but I have no say because I lease a space and do not own the building.  It will be ironic (don't you think), when my FAU-centric business gets bulldozed to create a FAU-centric district.  My building would be a great target for a tear down.  Not sure a small business survives the transition but that's not in my control so I will just keep plugging away.  
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owlcountry40 said

1. I thought those fabric stores would make a good college bar. They are large and could be used as a small live music venue similar to Sky Bar at Auburn.
That's an interesting idea. It would certainly be cheaper than bulldozing it to create mixed-use housing, though the advantage there is not only housing but potential for multiple businesses within the same space.

I wonder if we could attract places like Copper Blues and America's Backyard, the latter of which opened by FSU recently.

owlcountry40 said

I see FAU going the way of Miami and giving some on campus common space to chapters…..maybe.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 1:08 PM #367384
A Greek Life Center/Complex would be great. All for it. But I think the hill to get over there is arguing why the Greeks need more dedicated space when they're already operating out of ballrooms and offices in the existing Student Union which should get an expansion in the near future.

There are a ton of student organizations though and I'd imagine booking those rooms has only gotten more competitive since I've been there. That would be an argument FOR it.

fauowl said


It will be ironic (don't you think), when my FAU-centric business gets bulldozed to create a FAU-centric district.


Any plan that pushes out yourself, the Owl's Nest Valero gas station and/or Booksmart would be counter-productive. In that event, would it make any sense for you to move across the street to the Shoppes at University Park?

From a quick glance the rents seem similar and that plaza should last a lot longer than your building. Plus they could use the boost - I'm sure they're trying to fill the plaza as quick as they can but it's been a slow burn and there's almost no reason for the average student to go in there right now. Most of the traffic there seems to be for the gym or the thrift stores and even that is pretty minimal.
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Owl2Doc said

Any plan that pushes out yourself, the Owl's Nest Valero gas station and/or Booksmart would be counter-productive. In that event, would it make any sense for you to move across the street to the Shoppes at University Park?

From a quick glance the rents seem similar and that plaza should last a lot longer than your building. Plus they could use the boost - I'm sure they're trying to fill the plaza as quick as they can but it's been a slow burn and there's almost no reason for the average student to go in there right now. Most of the traffic there seems to be for the gym or the thrift stores and even that is pretty minimal.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 4:37 PM #367390

I do not anticipate any scenario where I would go in the Shoppes at University Park (former Plum Plaza). With my niche market, I have to have the advantage of the possibility of being found by driving by. It would cost a fortune to advertise to be found in there.  Lots of businesses have come and gone in there and that's a huge reason. You nailed it, there is no reason for the average student to go in there right now.  

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fauowl said

Owl2Doc said

Any plan that pushes out yourself, the Owl's Nest Valero gas station and/or Booksmart would be counter-productive. In that event, would it make any sense for you to move across the street to the Shoppes at University Park?

From a quick glance the rents seem similar and that plaza should last a lot longer than your building. Plus they could use the boost - I'm sure they're trying to fill the plaza as quick as they can but it's been a slow burn and there's almost no reason for the average student to go in there right now. Most of the traffic there seems to be for the gym or the thrift stores and even that is pretty minimal.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 4:37 PM #367390

I do not anticipate any scenario where I would go in the Shoppes at University Park (former Plum Plaza). With my niche market, I have to have the advantage of the possibility of being found by driving by. It would cost a fortune to advertise to be found in there.  Lots of businesses have come and gone in there and that's a huge reason. You nailed it, there is no reason for the average student to go in there right now.  


Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 5:06 PM #367392

I wasnt trying to imply that Mark should be pushed out. I was going for the more say student, slash university centeric area should be beneficial for it. Sorry if i implied that.
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USMCOWL said

fauowl said

Owl2Doc said

Any plan that pushes out yourself, the Owl's Nest Valero gas station and/or Booksmart would be counter-productive. In that event, would it make any sense for you to move across the street to the Shoppes at University Park?

From a quick glance the rents seem similar and that plaza should last a lot longer than your building. Plus they could use the boost - I'm sure they're trying to fill the plaza as quick as they can but it's been a slow burn and there's almost no reason for the average student to go in there right now. Most of the traffic there seems to be for the gym or the thrift stores and even that is pretty minimal.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 4:37 PM #367390

I do not anticipate any scenario where I would go in the Shoppes at University Park (former Plum Plaza). With my niche market, I have to have the advantage of the possibility of being found by driving by. It would cost a fortune to advertise to be found in there.  Lots of businesses have come and gone in there and that's a huge reason. You nailed it, there is no reason for the average student to go in there right now.  


Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 5:06 PM #367392

I wasnt trying to imply that Mark should be pushed out. I was going for the more say student, slash university centeric area should be beneficial for it. Sorry if i implied that.
Posted On: Feb 28th 2017, 11:29 PM #367396

I don't think you or anyone else implied that. Just talking about how ironic it would be for a FAU-centric business to be collateral damage in the 20th Street project. And it is quite possible.

But I will say, we all don't get to choose what stays and goes. We don't get to say: we don't like fabric stores so let's tear them down and build something better.  And we also don't get to say: we like Mark's store so let's tear down everything around it but keep his store. haha It ain't going to work that way.
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FAU Diehard Blog - FAU development, news, rumors and photos

True.

A careful master plan would try to re-arrange the "desirable" pieces but yes, ultimately if the It's Owl Time plaza gets demolished and rebuilt (as it likely will) then the onus is on the tenants to find another location on 20th to continue doing business - hence why I recommended the plaza across the street.

But as he pointed out, it doesn't have a strong anchor store (Publix, etc) to pull people in, the majority of the shops are not visible from 20th and the signage is not great.

Investments Limited, who owns the plaza, is no slouch, so the fact that it's still very slowly filling up means it's a tough spot. I still think there are a few well-known vendors who could liven up the spot and I hope they're pursuing them. The thrift stores and cutesy consignment shops are not cutting it.

Not to mention that the design isn't doing it any favors either, with trees obscuring signs, small walkways, no outdoor seating areas, etc. I really thought they'd fix more when they started renovating there but so far it's "taller and new paint". I think they got ride of some trees abutting the buildings so that's a start.
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So… interesting revelation thanks to this great piece by the UP

A couple years ago a property was redeveloped on 20th Street near Dunkin Donuts. At City Council meetings and online, the community was called La Vida Apartments and it was pitched as a not-officially-but-basically-yeah student housing community.

Weirdly enough though, the Facebook group went without an update even long after it was built. The website, lavidafau.com, didn't work. I'd drive by the complex and there'd be a handful of students there but no sign and no leasing office, so given all of this how was everybody finding and booking this place? Was word-of-mouth and student housing demand that high that they somehow filled it? Didn't make any sense.

Well, the UP article states that it's actually a sober living community called Life in Progress - an extension of a program called Life of Purpose on the FAU campus. I don't think FAU is directly involved, just hosting them as a tenant.

Suddenly everything makes sense again. It's not La Vida. The original owners must have sold it. Okay.

Still, I hope it's a legitimate program.

I worked with addicts for two months on a psych rotation and discovered how difficult it was for them to stay clean, both from internal and external pressure. A number of these recovery centers are not run by actual physicians or physicians with any true training in addiction, instead being owned by business people with no medical backgrounds that open them to maximize profits from insurance payouts at the expense of true recovery.

It's a nasty, nasty business, with centers planting "moles" in other places posing as patients and trying to get inpatients to switch centers. Additionally, if someone is homeless on the street you have people out there offering to get them high and reactivate that addiction to bring them into the center for recovery and, again, make that money.

It's a sick practice hiding in the shadow of true recovery by actual physicians.

That aside, this sober life house has impacts on 20th Street as well. Boca has made no secret of wanting to get these places out of the city, not encourage more of them to open because they already have a few in that area.

Furthermore, if you picture 20th Street as a nightlife-oriented area, that's obviously not good to build near people trying to live a clean lifestyle.
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Owl2Doc said

So… interesting revelation thanks to this great piece by the UP

A couple years ago a property was redeveloped on 20th Street near Dunkin Donuts. At City Council meetings and online, the community was called La Vida Apartments and it was pitched as a not-officially-but-basically-yeah student housing community.

Weirdly enough though, the Facebook group went without an update even long after it was built. The website, lavidafau.com, didn't work. I'd drive by the complex and there'd be a handful of students there but no sign and no leasing office, so given all of this how was everybody finding and booking this place? Was word-of-mouth and student housing demand that high that they somehow filled it? Didn't make any sense.

Well, the UP article states that it's actually a sober living community called Life in Progress - an extension of a program called Life of Purpose on the FAU campus. I don't think FAU is directly involved, just hosting them as a tenant.

Suddenly everything makes sense again. It's not La Vida. The original owners must have sold it. Okay.

Still, I hope it's a legitimate program.

I worked with addicts for two months on a psych rotation and discovered how difficult it was for them to stay clean, both from internal and external pressure. A number of these recovery centers are not run by actual physicians or physicians with any true training in addiction, instead being owned by business people with no medical backgrounds that open them to maximize profits from insurance payouts at the expense of true recovery.

It's a nasty, nasty business, with centers planting "moles" in other places posing as patients and trying to get inpatients to switch centers. Additionally, if someone is homeless on the street you have people out there offering to get them high and reactivate that addiction to bring them into the center for recovery and, again, make that money.

It's a sick practice hiding in the shadow of true recovery by actual physicians.

That aside, this sober life house has impacts on 20th Street as well. Boca has made no secret of wanting to get these places out of the city, not encourage more of them to open because they already have a few in that area.

Furthermore, if you picture 20th Street as a nightlife-oriented area, that's obviously not good to build near people trying to live a clean lifestyle.
Posted On: Mar 18th 2017, 6:34 PM #367830

And the latest news about sober living houses espeically the one the state just closed down and convicted the adminstrator of just hurts them more. and it is not just city governments that dont want them there too. Some neighborhoods and complexes dont want them near their property either.
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USMCOWL said

And the latest news about sober living houses especially the one the state just closed down and convicted the adminstrator of just hurts them more. and it is not just city governments that don't want them there too. Some neighborhoods and complexes don't want them near their property either.
Posted On: Mar 18th 2017, 8:53 PM #367839

Right, there's some bias against them because of their past mixed with concerns about potentially being a nest of drug activity near family housing, the latter of which is presumably the city's arguments against sober housing.

In their defense… at least where I was working, the sober housing tenants probably had much FEWER drugs and alcohol than an independent, "normal" place where they don't look into it unless landlord gets suspicious/cops come knocking - look at what happened at University Park, kid was dealing drugs out of his apartment.

On the other hand, our sober facility had what amounted to an RA and they were closely monitored. If someone was suspected of having anything they were not supposed to have, not only did their unit get searched but we once searched the entire community unit-by-unit for it. They agree to that. A normal apartment does not.

But if you walk by and you see a bunch of tattooed people smoking cigarettes on park benches and know it's a sober living community, you are probably thinking they're doing much worse. If they are, and the facility is well-run, they'll be discovered and kicked out.

My concern, to bring this back around to 20th, is that having a bunch of students going to college bars (which we hope the renovated 20th will have) and potentially some drug use (because, again, college) is going to make it more difficult for those sober housing tenants to avoid temptation. I'm hoping the facility doesn't use that excuse to campaign against nightlife opportunities on 20th Street.
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Couple of things. First, the "restaurant site for lease" site came down on the former Schnellenberger Steak Sports place on 20th Street/University Shoppes. Hopefully that means something good is going in there.

Second, SB Architects has updated the University Village renderings on their website HERE. Some changes to the existing layout and some new angles in the renderings. Basically they removed the fountains on the lake, added a parking garage to the hotel (upper left corner), added more lofts to the student housing/millenials area (bottom middle C shape housing), added urban stairs near the lake, tweaked the roads to have more pedestrian sidewalks.

Not sure when shovels are going into the ground for this, hopefully in the next few years, and it will likely be built in phases from the front to the back. Being that retail stores like American Apparel, Chico's, RadioShack etc are shuttering their physical stores in favor of (and in response to) online sales, hopefully that means this area will have more restaurants and entertainment and fewer, you know, uppity dress shops and candle stores.

on its own the project is exciting to think about given its proximity to FAU but it's especially exciting when you think about this, 20th Street, the forthcoming Midtown project by the mall and the recent developments downtown - if all these projects get going soon, this area around campus will look very different in the next decade… more urban, more dense, more transit-oriented, hopefully more FAU-focused and fun.

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