Will let MLBBoca weigh in on this, but posting as a courtesy for now!

 

OFFICIAL BOX SCORE:

DeltAlumnus said

A little confused about the criticizing of the UAB official scoring? Are they padding their own stats?

Posted On: May 3rd 2015, 4:39 PM #345019

I may have been too harsh. It turned out it was a substitute scorer for some reason (NFL draft?). Personally, I do not understand taking a job for which you are not qualified, but it may be a case of nobody else available so filling in just to have a body there. Even then, though, I do not understand not preparing for the job. The MLB scoring rules comprise 33 pages, the NCAA baseball rules 11 pages. Why not spend a few minutes reading the rules? It could be done in the time to drink a cup of coffee. Then, I don't mind mistakes - they prove we are human, and that's a good thing. What I do mind is that when shown the rule, you still defy it, do not take ownership of your mistakes, and do not fix you mistakes. When there is a change that late on a play, it is frequently (as in nearly always) a coach calling up and saying to make the change. This is something Coach Mac has never done, and forbids any of the coaches from doing. After the game they can ask for a clarification, or for us to review video, but the call stays entirely with us. There is never, ever, an order to make a change.

If there is any doubt, on whether H or E, the batter gets the benefit. It is always much less embarrassing to change a H to an E than an E to a H as, in the latter, you are saying you had no doubt it was an error, and then it is. A few years ago, professional scorers reviewed D1 and it was determined that the D1 FPCT was about 20 points less than MLB, and should be about .960. Right at this moment, FAU is sitting precisely at .960, so we are probably doing it right.

We all make mistakes. At work, I tell my staff I don't mind mistakes. Come out and let us know about them so they can be corrected. However, trying to hide one will get you fired. The "mistake" in question here, though, was correctly shown as a 2-base error. A few innings later, it was changed for some reason to H + E. Even with the H, there would have been a runner on 1b with one out on errorless play. The runner would have advanced to 2b on a SAC, making 2 out, runner on 2b. The next ball is softly hit, just out of Chatham's reach, to shallow LF - a ball on which a runner on 2b would have held or been easily thrown out by Endris at 3b. If you were following on GameTracker, you may have noticed the ER flipped between earned and unearned at least 30 or 40 times.The rules also state that the pitcher gets all benefit of doubt on advancement of runners in the reconstruction of innings without errors/passed balls. The original ruling, and the flipping, and the replay all show that there is overwhelming doubt the runner would have ever even reached 3b, much less scored, even if it had been a hit.  Rule 10.22.a states:

"Note: In determining earned runs, the scorer shall reconstruct the inning as if there were no errors or passed balls. Give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt in determining the advancement of runners, had the defensive team been errorless."

Then, on the caught stealing, they used the Florida Gator method. It was a 1361 CS. It was enter as a pickoff. Once a runner makes any move whatsoever to the next base, it is either SB, CS, CS but safe on muffed throw, or safe return to original base (and possibly FC if play then made on another runner who is CS and this runner advances) It is not a pickoff. Rule 10.10.b states:

"Caught stealing shall be charged to the base runner whenever he is put out in the following situations:

1. When he attempts to steal;
2. When he is picked off a base and tries to advance; or
3. When he overslides while stealing.

Note: Do not charge caught stealing unless the runner has an opportunity to be credited with a stolen base when the play starts."

Caught stealing and pickoffs are mutually exclusive. As explained by NCAA Rules Committee several years ago when another team's SID question why we did not put a PO CS on the same play:

"Mike,
We would score that as caught stealing….by comparison, if the
runner in question had successfully reached second base, would that
be scored as a pickoff and stolen base? Certainly not. It is exclusively
caught stealing. A pickoff should only be scored if the runner makes
no attempt to advance and is put out before he can return to the base
he held at the end of the previous play.
Hope this helps.
George

Michael L Brown wrote:
> Dear Mr. Valesente
>
> During a recent NCAA Division I game, there was a play where on a
> pickoff attempt by the pitcher to get a runner leading off first, the
> runner being caught broke for second and was put out 1-3-6. It is
> clear that the runner is charged with caught stealing. However, there
> is disagreement on how to possibly further score the play.
>
> The opinions are:
>
> To only charge the runner with caught stealing. The other opinion is
> that in addition to the caught stealing, to charge a pickoff.
>
> Based upon the above information, which opinion do you believe would
> best be in compliance with the NCAA rules?
>
> Thank you in advance for your prompt reply,
>
> Mike Brown"

Of the same email, the others members replied similarly:

"Mike:
In my opinion the play as described below should be scored only as caught stealing…..Jeff [Hurd]"

"Mike, from the information that you have given me I would be in
agreement that this was only a caught stealing, which is exclusive of a
pickoff on this play. The same runner cannot be charged both a pickoff
and a caught stealing on the same play. However, a runner on first can
be picked off and then a separate runner caught stealing on the same
play. Hope this helps.  Stan Fite"

Andy Pettite is well known for his "pickoffs." Only the vast major were caught stealing. In his 1st 3 seasons, he had 12, 10, 14 pickoffs respectively. He only had 62 more over the final 15 years of his 18-year career. Most people seem to think he had 30-40 a year, when for his career he averaged 5.4 per year, and 4.1 over his last 15 years. See Andy Pettitte Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com and scroll down to "Standard Fielding" and look as next to last column.

As for padding stats, Florida Gators are probably the most notorious. They like to pad their pitching stats with pickoffs, but do not do so for opponents on the exact same play. From a game against them a few years ago (see: Gator Baseball Boxscores - GatorZone.com ):

FAU 3rd: "Pittman out at second p to 1b to ss, picked off, caught stealing."

Exact same play for Florida in the bottom of the inning: " Martin out at second p to 1b to ss, picked off. "

Gotta pad the pitcher stats by adding a non-existant PO against Pittman, then pad their own baserunning stats by omitting a caught stealing from Martin. But, we're not over yet. Now, with a runner on 3b, a ball hit to SS, who could have easily retired the batter, but instead threw home, and in the resulting rundown 625 runner returning safely to 3b, the batter moves 2b, you get this in the Florida 5th (including the setup play to put runner on 3b):

"Bader advanced to third on a wild pitch. Martin singled to shortstop, stole second (1-0)."

That's right, a FC becomes a hit, and then when advancing on the throw it goes down as a stolen base.

Southern Miss counted a catcher's interference as an assumed put out in order to avoid charging one of their pitchers with an ER. The rules are quite clear that since the batter never completed a plate appearance (the batter doesn't even get a plate appearance in his stats), the scorer cannot assume a batter would have either reached or been put out. There was no plate appearance, so in the inning reconstruction, you skip over that batter. 10.16.a.4 is the rule Southern Miss willfully chose to ignore in order to lower their pitcher's ERA:

"In an inning in which a batter-runner reaches first base on a catcher’s interference, such batter-runner shall not count as an earned run should he subsequently score. The official scorer shall not assume, however, that such batter would have made an out absent the catcher’s interference (unlike, for example, situations in which a batter-runner reaches first base safely because of a fielder’s misplay of a ball for an error). Because such batter never had a chance to complete his time at bat, it is unknown how such batter would have fared absent the catcher’s interference. Compare the following examples:
(3) With two out, Abel reaches first on an error by the shortstop in misplaying a ground ball. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but none is earned, because Abel’s at-bat should have been the third out of the inning, as reconstructed without the error.
(4) With two out, Abel reaches first on a catcher’s interference. Baker hits a home run. Charlie strikes out. Two runs have scored, but one (Baker’s) is earned, because the official scorer cannot assume that Abel would have made an out to end the inning, absent the catcher’s interference."

I don't mind so much when they mess up their own stats, though it makes theirs look better by comparison. But, when they mess up ours, and then are shown the rules and do not make the change, I will back our guys up. At FAU, integrity counts. Last year, against UTSA, we ended a long streak of no GDP and hit into a fair number of them that series. However, they did not show in our stats. UTSA did not realize the difference between putting in DP and GDP (apparently did not know there was a special code for GDP). At FAU's request, UTSA made the corrections so our stats would be accurate. That's integrity. That's worthy of one of those sportsmanship PSA commercials. That's also why I am proud to be an Owl - we do things right.

Rick said

Will let MLBBoca weigh in on this, but posting as a courtesy for now!

 

OFFICIAL BOX SCORE:

Posted On: May 3rd 2015, 8:18 PM #345026

Oh, goodie. Now they've taken away the save from McGarry, too. WTF??? I am usually regarded for having exceptional patience, but willful misconduct does not count as mistakes.