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Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

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Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

Not the first time it has come up…actually brought up back in the 80's…but now it has surfaced again…watched a segment today discussing the two scenarios some coaches are "pushing" for consideration…they are:

No foul out - When a player reaches five fouls or more, the other teams player gets an automatic two free throws, and his team also gets the ball back (similar to a technical foul).

6th foul, then out - one more than current rule of five before a foul out, mimicking the NBA rule.

What do you think of these two possible changes to the current rule?
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

Sounds like they're making a rule change for the sake of making a rule change.
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

Florida_Owl said

Not the first time it has come up…actually brought up back in the 80's…but now it has surfaced again…watched a segment today discussing the two scenarios some coaches are "pushing" for consideration…they are:

No foul out - When a player reaches five fouls or more, the other teams player gets an automatic two free throws, and his team also gets the ball back (similar to a technical foul).

6th foul, then out - one more than current rule of five before a foul out, mimicking the NBA rule.

What do you think of these two possible changes to the current rule?

I think with a "no foul out" situation, the game would get VERY physical. The coaches would advise to just go in there and literally do whatever it takes to get the ball.


P.S. I don't respond to guest posts. All guests are encouraged to register with the site.
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

Interesting perspectives…

I'll add this:

It would majorly benefit teams with limited depth at certain positions…ie - us this year…

If you are small minus two guys on your roster, they would be in forever…couldn't foul out or get that extra one to keep them around a bit more…

It would also eliminate the advantage of having a driving team that can draw fouls…i mean you keep getting the free throws with the rule being tossed and the ball and all, but the penalty of the opposing team losing a player is gone…

I think if they did it, they should reinterpret the "intentional foul" rule and make it more defined and enforced to prohibit coaches doing what Owlcountry mentions…
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

What is the reason for the possible change, I don't see how it will improve the game.

I agree with Bog Dog, sounds like a rule change for the sake of change, if there's no clear benefit to the game leave it alone.

GO OWLS!
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

If you stick to the math, 5 fouls for a 32 minute  HS game results in 6.25 fouls for College, so 6 fouls is not unreasonable.  If you also took into account the change in the pace of the game, you could build an argument for 5 fouls for high school, 7 fouls for college, and in the 48 minute NBA game with even greater game pace, 10 fouls to accomplish a near linear progression from HS.

It is beyond me how institutions of higher learning could miss the inequities of changing the length of a game without adjusting player eligibility issues (# of fouls).

I would not like to see a "no foul out rule" particularly if the penalty is only 2 free throws and resumption of play.  Something on the order of 3 additional fouls with 2 free throws and opponent possession of the ball at the point of foul, then if the player uses up his "probationary fouls, he is gone without discussion by the coach.

Either way, one benefit to this "new foul" resolution might be that officials may figure out that they no longer have to "protect" the star, and can call fouls as they occur, independent of any pre-conceptions or reputation…wait for that to happen (smile)
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

NewOwlOldBBFan said

Either way, one benefit to this "new foul" resolution might be that officials may figure out that they no longer have to "protect" the star, and can call fouls as they occur, independent of any pre-conceptions or reputation…wait for that to happen (smile)

You have seen the SBC officials?? :)

They have NO PROBLEM calling fouls……. :D
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

My bad– >:(  , although I think Rex would give you an argument about that.

I reverted to a former life where officials actually discussed such issues as "don't make the 5th one a "ticky tack"" when referring to specific prominent players in the game to be played.  Then, officials became defensive and reluctant to whistle a player out of the game unless God, Moses and everyone in the arena saw the foul.

On the issue of SBC officials, my take on this is that there is no SBC loyalty in most of the officials.  By that, I think most work in other, more prestigious conferences (even if they are in the bottom quadrant), and take SBC games as an augmentation to their trip, picking up a second away game.  You can almost see it in their body language as they work games.  If my suspicions are true, the SBC assigner has no hammer to drop on officials, and is almost held hostage by the officials if he wants to get games from them…..this is all backwards and will result in the officiating problems contintinuing ad infinitum.
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

NewOwlOldBBFan said

On the issue of SBC officials, my take on this is that there is no SBC loyalty in most of the officials.  By that, I think most work in other, more prestigious conferences (even if they are in the bottom quadrant), and take SBC games as an augmentation to their trip, picking up a second away game.  You can almost see it in their body language as they work games.  If my suspicions are true, the SBC assigner has no hammer to drop on officials, and is almost held hostage by the officials if he wants to get games from them…..this is all backwards and will result in the officiating problems contintinuing ad infinitum.

Interesting take you present above…

Some of the refs are from larger conferences…most are not…its easy to see that they are completely "lost
" at times when making some calls, etc…

a foul is a foul is a foul…and a charge is a charge is a charge…there is vast difference within the "consistency" amongst the guys coming in for our games…and some, having seen them before, you can bet your bottom dollar will ruin a game given the chance because, as you mention, there is no accountability from the home office…

i can think of two in particular that have NO BUSINESS being in balck and white stripes EVER agin on this level - plain out poor officials…

anyway, i like your vantage and would surmise that is does exsist in some form…
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Re: Hoops rule change? The sixth foul, or no foul out period...

Got to know a few officials in my time (more on the West coastal area than East)and typically, if one was a D-1 official with 3-5 years experience, they almost always worked for at least one other conference.  Many of the more notorious ones worked for as many as 5 conferences, giving them 3-4 game for a 4 day trip (fees for games, per diem and travel prepaid expenses could run up to $3-4K pocket money).

I generalized by awareness of officiating practices in the west to Fla, although I remember distinctly in Walters' first year in an away game at Denver he was double T'd and tossed by Curtis Shaw, lead official for an all Big 12 crew that was in Colorado for a Big 12 game in Boulder. I don;t think this occurs in the majority of the time, but when an official who has "made it" in a big conference takes a game in the SBC, you can bet big money the other officials on the game are calling the game for him, not the kids.  At least that has been my expeerience, shallow though it may be.
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